cover of Threefold Sun by Taj Forer

Jen: Hi there. Love your editions so! I am excited!
Taj: Oh, shucks. Thanks for doing this. I'm very psyched myself.
Jen: Sure thing, I am sorry that we didn't connect sooner. But what's funny is that this weekend I was at the Hawthorne Valley Farm store. So I've had Steiner on my mind.
Taj: No way! That place is amazing.
Jen: And I also got to drink raw milk. For the first time ever. And it is delicioso. Buttery.
Taj: So tasty. Amazing! Amazing that that's the ONLY way milk used to be consumed and now it's the rare exception...
Jen: You moved right? Because before I think you were living upstate?
Taj: Well, I had been living in North Carolina and this winter moved up to CT where I am now. Just north of the city on Metro North which is nice. I love cities but don't think I could ever live in one—especially the Big Apple! You guys are all crazy for living there as far as I'm concerned B-)
Jen: I was imagining you up there all cozy, drinking the raw milk daily.
Taj: ha! Too funny. No, I wish I lived on a farm upstate—someday...
Jen: Yea, I spent a lot of time up there when I was growing up. My granny lives in Hillsdale. And I spent summers up there with her... we'd go to the Steiner school for performances and stuff.
Taj: Nice. It's so gorgeous and always shocks me how close the beautiful, open farmland is to NYC. Really incredible. Wow.
Jen: Long before slow food and sustainability was chic, it was all longhairs and wheatgrass, baby!
Taj: I had no idea you had a Steiner connection. Very interesting. Love it!
Jen: Last weekend, I was up there with my friends Alaina and Anil, and Alaina is the GM of this (awesome) food site called Serious Eats. So they were happy to go foraging with me and go to all the local farm stands, etc.
Taj: Sounds like my kind of weekend.
Jen: And the Hawthorne Valley place was the most store like, but also took first prize because aside from providing us all with the unique and delicious raw milk experience, they also stock a dazzling array of root beers.
Taj: Really? I didn't know that. Do they make their own?
Jen: And I discovered over the weekend that Columbia County has more working farms than any other NYS county! Yes, they are only allowed to sell it directly from the store there, they can't bring it down to the greenmarket even.
Taj: Wow. That's nuts. I guess it makes sense though. Seems to be almost all farmland up there.
Jen: It's super regulated although I can't tell if it's because of real danger or powerful Dairy Industry lobbyists.
So, can you tell me how you connected with Steiner?
Taj: Oh, I would imagine it's all lobbyist pressure. From my experience working on small, sustainable farms when I lived in NC (and my many friends that still run such farms), the 'raw' regulations have almost nothing to do with 'food safety'—it's quite scary and eye opening really. But, to answer your question re: how I connected with Steiner—I attended a Waldorf school when I was a child, K-8 grade.
Jen: Right, we are in such an interesting time in our history. A lot of my techy friends are newly interested in government because of Obama, but as they wade into the bureaucracy with the intention of being part of a big change, their eyes are being opened to a lot of the crazy stuff that is part of our government, lobbies being one of them.
Ah! Right see this is what was part of what was cool about the whole Hawthorne Valley thing, was getting to fire up Wikipedia... And talk to my friends about Steiner and Waldorf etc.
Taj: It was a school located in an old farmhouse and surrounded by fields, forests and streams. Just gorgeous. As I got older and began the process of exploring my own life (rather than the lives of others) through photography, I turned my attention to the landscape of the Waldorf school that I attended as a child.
Jen: I will freely confess that my level of Waldorf-informedness is fuzzy at best. Now though, looking at it as an adult in our current culture, it seems downright visionary in a lot of ways.
Taj: I completely agree that Steiner was a visionary.
No doubt about it. One of the greatest (yet little-known) thinkers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I don't agree with everything he wrote/taught, but find amazing inspiration in the intention of his work.
Jen: Also I don't mean to be disrespectful in my glibness. I just have that way about me.

Tree house, Taos, New Mexico by Taj Forer

Taj: And do, indeed, find much of his teaching to be timeless and inspirational for sure... ha! No disrespect was felt.
Jen: But ya, I mean a lot of the ethos he puts forth (at least from my recent surface inspection) seems to address a lot of the stuff that we're dealing with today. And seems in sync with the growing sustainability/slow food movement. And you know, YOU were ahead of the curve in working to document them!
Taj: Exactly—and that was at the heart of what Steiner was interested in addressing through his life and work. The fact that society is often, somehow, in opposition to the freedom that we should experience and participate in as human beings.
Jen: Because you did this project a while ago, correct? 2004-5ish? When was the book published?
Taj: Well, ahead of the curve? Not really. What fascinates me about this 'movement' is that it simply suggests a reversion back to practices that sustained agriculture (and much of the human race) for thousands of years. Yes, I produced most of the work in 2006. The book was published in the fall of 2007, the project really began in '04 when I first took my camera back to the school I attended in my youth. Perhaps even '03 now that I think about it...
Jen: Ahead of the curve in the sense that it seems prescient that you started documenting a lifestyle that there's a recent huge interest in. Of course I cast a gimlet eye on that interest... hopefully it won't be a fad!
Taj: Yes, I see what you mean. I too hope this is not a fleeting interest!
Jen: Yea, this summer a lot of people are "farming", even here in NYC! Rooftops and window boxes and stuff. It's kind of amazing.
Taj: As long as these 'natural' (in the truest sense of the word) foods can become ACCESSIBLE, I think the movement possesses the potential to be long-lasting. Now you've hit the nail on the head!
Jen: Right, one of the things that I've found frustrating about some conversations I've had with foodies is that there's a sense that people don't eat organic because they're not enlightened or lazy or something. And the access is the key.
Taj: It's all about empowering people and communities to grow their own food.
Jen: There's no organic at the bodega in the 'hood, last I checked.
Taj: Yup.
Jen: Right, I guess that is what I mean about you being ahead of the curve. Because it's only recently in the spotlight for a lot of people. But you know, what you've documented includes food/farming but it's not just that, at all, particularly the images we selected today.
Taj: And with regards to 'organic', the FDA now OWNS that word and in order to use it, farmers need to pay thousands of dollars and go through an intense certification process. Yet at the same time, the FDA has opened up all kinds of questionable fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides and fungicides that can be used by certified 'organic' farmers, thus further undermining the foundation of the natural foods movement.
Jen: I heard about some new legislation that's being circulated that will make it even harder... is that what you're referring to? Did it get passed? :(
Taj: It's quite scary in my opinion. I'm not sure about the most recent legislation.
Jen: We're back at government stuff again, I think one thing that's so daunting about the idea of change actually happening is how monolithic the government is.
Taj: Amen. I couldn't agree more. But back to your comment about this series of photographs going beyond agriculture...
Jen: Right.
Taj: What I really hoped to get at through producing these images was an exploration of the underlying ideas/concepts that Steiner built all of his work from.
Jen: Well what I get is a sense of community.
Taj: Namely, that through everything we do as human beings, we should seek to better the world, ourselves and society.
Jen: And a connection that goes beyond family.
Taj: Yes, community is central to this process.
Jen: My little armchair theory about contemporary culture is that with religion being less central we've lost a major driver of community responsibility. But I do find it sad/frustrating that our world from Reagan forward—we're all about self-sufficiency.
Taj: Well, I think that it's all about a recognition/realization that we are small pieces of a much larger whole. Now whether or not we define 'whole' as transcending the physical world, is totally up to the individual.
Jen: Sort of broadly speaking. Well I think that's some of the appeal of Steiner to me, it's easier for me to wrap my head around honoring the earth and others around me, rather than thinking about some dude in the sky in flowing robes.
Taj: It's interesting, Steiner's biodynamic agricultural method came out of many of his followers begging him to address the negative effects that farmers in Europe were beginning to notice as a direct result of the beginning of industrialized farming. something affecting everyone...
ha!
Jen: Ok but yea, BIODYNAMIC, that word! Anil, one of the weekend-in-the-country sojourners, is a punny guy. We had a field day with the term. I like how its meaning breaks down. But it's kind of a sitting duck from a make-fun-ability perspective. :D
Taj: Steiner was a devout Christian and often times I felt that his religious beliefs got in the way of more tangible forms of communicating his ideas. Having said this, he was a very open-minded person who borrowed from all of the major faith traditions when formulating various aspects of his philosophy.
Jen: See now I want to dig into more about Steiner because he sounds like a righteous dude. Do you know if there's a good bio about him? One maybe NOT by an acolyte?
Taj: There is a TON written about him but so much of it is very incestuous.
Jen: Right, I got that even from Wikipedia! I will dig around.
Taj: I have read some biographical essays, etc. and can e-mail some to you.
Jen: Yay, thanks. So, let's get back to the pix again
Taj: Anthroposophy is very 'niche' in a way, yet addresses such universal concepts. The irony is thick.
Jen: I said connectedness and community is what I get from them, and you know, I've been looking at the work since the book came out. (anthroposophy: another sitting duck word!)
Taj: I like that that's what you get from the pictures. There is an interesting phenomenon right now wherein Waldorf education is slowly being incorporated into some public charter schools.
Jen: Wow! That is cool... wholesale or in part?
Taj: I love this because it suggests that perhaps the insular nature of the 'movement' is changing, branching out in part. It's experimental right now from what I understand but has been widely successful in the test schools and there is a hope of expansion.
Jen: Right I guess that's the slowly being integrated thing! Seems our education is due for a bit of an overhaul, so that's good to hear.

Meeting space, Santa Fe, New Mexico by Taj Forer

Taj: Yes, I agree. Maybe we can start by reinstating recess for shit's sake!
Jen: Hahah. OK, so we should wrap up for the NL.
Taj: Play is a basic part of child development!
Jen: I myself am agnostic AT BEST, maybe even an atheist, so I don't lament a less religion-focused culture.
What are you working on right now?
Taj: I almost hate to talk about it publicly because it is very difficult to articulate the subtle nature of the work through language (and that's actually part of what drew me to begin making the work) but...
Jen: We don't HAVE to. But now I'm burning with curiosity of course. :D ... the suspense is killing me! :D
Taj: Well, not to get too into it because I could go on all day, but I have been fascinated by the fact that for the vast majority of human existence (taking it WAY back...) our race has sustained itself through practices that we, contemporary people, have termed 'hunter gatherer.' Perceiving industrialization as commencing with the dawn of agriculture, we have only departed from the hunter-gatherer way of existing very recently. So, my work is an examination of this way of life but in a very non-documentary way.
Jen: (I am really glad to hear that someone else is thinking about this crazy stuff). The post-hunter/gatherer way of life you mean?
Taj: My new work is somewhat typological (although I try not to use that highly charged photographic term) in that it represents many of the objects and actions associated with basic survival practices.
Jen: Ah interesting. Hrm. I cannot wait to see!
Taj: I have been spending a lot of time learning how to live off of the land in the most simple ways imaginable and I have been photographing this process so as to suggest, via the visual language (which has the capacity for transcending linguistic barriers) these nearly 'lost' ways of being.
Jen: Nice, it sounds super interesting, and it seems like a natural progression. (or should I say regression?) from Threefold Sun.
Taj: ha
Jen: Oh also just super quick—the boots/raincoats—outside a Waldorf school?
Taj: Yes, an interesting school actually.
Jen: I love that photo so much because on a surface level it's just delicious eye-candy.
Taj: It's an old public school that the city of San Diego no longer wanted to use so it rents to the Waldorf school for a good price.
Jen: But also it has such a wonderful cozy warmth about it, and a nostalgia.
Taj: I find that so lovely and metaphorical...
Jen: I mean it has a soundtrack in my mind, when I look at it.
Taj: Thanks. That image seems to resonate with many.
Jen: That is actually super interesting/great to know. And then of course the chalkboard poem—
Taj: Oh, please tell me about the soundtrack!
Jen: which is ever more charming b/c of its small errors.
Taj: Yes, the flaws MAKE that image for me.
Jen: Well, the soundtrack is that distinctive din of kids in a school yard, and oddly the ocean, for some reason, in the background.
Taj: So representative of the whole movement: beautiful, well intentioned but, like anything worth a damn, also flawed. Like people!
Jen: Which is something I thought of before knowing it was taken in SD.
Taj: Cool.
Jen: And there's a film too.
Taj: That just about sums up the literal soundtrack when I was making the image.
Jen: A tangle of kids and a teacher sitting on her haunches trying to hold a kid still and get her into her slicker.
Taj: You got it.
Jen: It's comfortable and nostalgic, even though it's not something I ever experienced. I mean I think my teacher was kind like that, in pre-school, but I grew up in Queens NYC! heh. OK. This is super fun, I actually love talking to the artist about an image and finding out that the little stories I make up make sense. Sometimes they make no sense at all, which is fine too. But I can't lie, I enjoy being right. ;)
Taj: Nice. I always enjoy talking about the work as it often leads to new discoveries/ways of thinking about my own images and process.
Jen: Well, we can always talk more, right now I am going to write an intro... Yea we're a little late, so I gotta hustle like mad.